Posted by in BLT Research, CIA, Citizen Hearing on Disclosure, Dr. Charles F. Gritzner, ghost lights, Jesse A. Marcel Library, Nancy Talbott, South Dakota State University, UFO | 8 Comments
My Thoughts Regarding Dr. Charles F. Gritzner’s Lecture
When I am listening to a lecturer, I do not usually find myself thinking “Is it possible that this man works for the CIA?” I acknowledge that such a thought sounds paranoid. I can honestly say that this thought had really never before occurred to me during a live lecture until the evening I sat listening to Distinguished Professor Emeritus (SDSU) Charles F. Gritzner’s presentation at the Jesse A. Marcel Library on April 1, 2014. Dr. Gritzner’s lecture, titled The Geography of the (So-Called) Paranormal – Where, Why There, and Why Care?, touched on a dizzying array of topics commonly associated with the paranormal. Mention was made of “ghost lights” (Gritzner’s paranormal topic of research interest), UFOs, voodoo, chupacabras, exorcism, crop circles, mother-ships (said, literally, backhandedly), “whistlers” (lightning bolts apparently originating in the Marion Islands of S. Africa and apparently, at one time proposed as a natural explanation for the crop circles appearing on the Salisbury Plane of the U.K.), the Marfa Lights, the Maco, NC Lights, several other “ghost lights”, and the Loch Ness monster – and all in 1.5 hours! We were shown an example of how plastic bags can become “UFOs” under the proper meteorological conditions – a valuable reminder.
When speaking about crop circles, Gritzner presented only one example of a “famous” (who knew?) 1990 crop circle which took the form of a modified question mark and was discovered near the base of a grain elevator in Leola, SD. Gritzner opined that said crop circle was most likely made by humans due to the fact that the formation was suspiciously positioned at the base of tall grain elevators specifically for the benefit of the press and their cameras. Perhaps he is correct, but the point of his entire presentation is that we, as “True Believers”, should not jump to conclusions. Here is what ICCRA reported about this crop circle:
“A 80-foot long by 30-foot wide “reversed question mark” design surrounded by three rectangular ‘bars’ 5-feet in diameter arranged on the points of an equilateral triangle. The plants were bent over two inches above the ground. When discovered, the field had no tracks, nor were there any broken or kinked stalks of wheat in the circle formation. Eyewitness report only”.
Gritzner’s basic advice with regard to discerning the provenance of apparently ALL crop circles was matter-of-factly stated as: “follow the money”. He implied that many crop circle researchers were simply “in it for the money”, and in this group he included the name of Colin Andrews. Having met and spoken with Colin Andrews, and having listened to him lecture about crop circles on 2 occasions, I am absolutely, 100 % certain that Colin Andrews is not into crop circle research “for the money”. Andrews has dedicated much of his adult life to trying to unravel the mystery behind the crop circles, almost to the point of his own financial ruin. Colin Andrews does not deserve to be impugned as a scam artist. Also curiously absent during Gritzner’s presentation was any mention of the brilliant and very difficult-to-organize scientific work accomplished and published by Nancy Talbott, W. C. Levengood, and the BLT Research group. Although BLT’s work was eventually briefly mentioned, this was only due to a question asked by a well-informed member of the audience. Go figure. Gritzner found himself unable to acknowledge the possibility that an advanced civilization might choose to initially communicate with a socially complex, nuclear weapon armed, geopolitically unstable, and more primitive civilization (ours) through the beautiful and non-threatening medium of crop circles. All I can say is thank goodness they have had the wisdom to not yet land on the White House lawn, an as-yet-to-come (or some similar) event for which the Jesse A. Marcel Library is attempting to educate and prepare the public. Gritzner also seemed incapable of discerning that it may be the case, and very likely is the case, that many crop circles are, as we should expect, a “monkey-see, monkey-do” human activity. As much as we may dislike being reminded of this, Earth is, after all, still a planet nurturing a majority population of advanced primates – with many still doing their best to act the part.
All the while I was listening to Dr. Gritzner, I kept experiencing the feeling that I was being gently and very skillfully coaxed back into a restrictive enclosure – a dark corral long ago declared necessary by our military / government and intended to contain, as Gritzner would clearly classify our audience, the “True Believers”. I thought to myself, what better way to disrupt or even derail a grassroots effort aimed at raising world consciousness about the UFO, crop circle, and related phenomena than to send a very learned, distinguished, and skillful debunker right into our midst – to “talk some sense into us”. After spending some time with Dr. Gritzner the following morning, and finding myself surprised that he seemed to be apparently uninformed about a number of recently published books and important events (The Citizen Hearing on Disclosure, for example) which have lent very solid support to the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis as being the least objectionable explanation for the UFO (the unidentifiables) phenomenon, I went home and Googled “CIA Charles F. Gritzner”. The first page was replete with associations between the CIA World Fact Book and several publications which cited Gritzer’s name as the author. I discovered one reference which seemed to imply that Dr. Gritzner had worked with (for?) the CIA as a geographic analyst from 1953 – 1957. Of course this does not in any way constitute proof that Dr. Gritzner might be working as a professional debunker associated with the CIA, but I invite any reader to Google “CIA and your own name”, and see what comes up.
I was also curious about the term “ghost lights” which Dr. Gritzner frequently mentioned during his lecture. I never really hear anybody in my world talking about “ghost lights”. Wikipedia details almost nothing about “ghost lights”. I find no credible references to publications concerning legitimate “ghost light” research. Maybe it was just me, but I sensed a subtle but detectable intention to associate and, through that association, essentially equate the term “ghost lights” with the term UFOs. From there it is but a short step toward Gritzner’s apparent (paraphrased) conclusion: “Yes, there are ghost lights out there alright, they are very strange and, in many if not most cases, many remain simply inexplicable. We just don’t know what the heck these things could be. But, if we wait them out, we don’t jump to conclusions, and we continue to study them, the (read prosaic) source of each one of them (read UFOs) will finally be revealed.”
Gritzner’s assessment in no way does justice to what is currently known about UnidentifiableFOs. Curiously absent were any statements from Gritzner supporting the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis as the least objectionable explanation for some UFOs. He just did not seem to be comfortable with that very likely explanation. It appears to me that Gritzner remains intellectually constrained by the social shackles of academia, his status as a Distinguished Professor Emeritus, and our society’s imposed and narrow definition of a scientist. Too bad – the world needs people of his stature who are willing to thoroughly educate themselves about what is currently known about UFOs and related phenomena, and then come out on the limb and acknowledge what to many has become the obvious –that we are not alone.
I invite all to consider these words from Dr. John Mack, M.D.:
“It is as if the phenomenon were inviting us to change our ways, to expand our consciousness and ways of learning, to use, in addition to our conventional ways of knowing and observing, methodologies appropriate to its own complex, subtle, and perhaps ultimately unknowable nature.”
What we are studying at the JAML, trying to learn more about, is a highly evolved, obviously intelligent phenomenon, technologically advanced, with its own agenda, that is here observing, and at times interacting with, human civilization. This phenomenon is clearly not volunteering to be captured, weighed, measured, poked, prodded, or otherwise manipulated for scientific study, these methods being the historical and, to-date, widely employed means of acquiring new knowledge by scientists. With regard to the UFO, crop circle, alien abduction, and cattle mutilation phenomena, scientists today face an unfamiliar and unprecedented situation that lies completely outside of their comfort zone – a slowly unfolding realization never before encountered in human history. Our own present day technological advances allow us to only now realize that the contact we are experiencing with these beings is very likely contact with those same “gods” of our ancestors, and the progress of that contact is not going to be governed under terms dictated by man. Anthropocentric reasoning will prove to be a barrier to our further understanding of what is happening. All who approach these phenomena with correct intention will do so with humility and under the full acknowledgement that the Universe is infinite, it is ancient, and it holds many more unknowns, surprises, and profound revelations than we are presently capable of imagining.
If Dr. Gritzner’s sole purpose in meeting with us at the Jesse A. Marcel Library was simply to admonish us, as “True Believers”, to be open-minded skeptics, then we should sincerely thank him for this important reminder, which he delivered more than effectively. We clearly do need this reminder periodically, as we have seen examples of contrary logic occur right on the front porch of the JAML. However, if Dr. Gritzner’s modus operandi is to infiltrate small, grassroots UFO organizations as a solo-flying debunker, or worse, on behalf of the CIA, in an effort to dissuade U.S. citizens from becoming invested in and investigating what are truly the most important unfolding phenomena in human history, then he is on the wrong side of history. The psychological tactics that appeared to pop up throughout his lecture have, without a doubt, in past times, proven quite effective in undermining the curiosity of the uninformed. However, given what we now know to be true about UFOs, crop circles, alien abductions, cattle mutilations etc., through the hard-won, self-funded research accomplished by open-minded and genuine Truth seekers, such tactics are currently rendered defunct, outdated, and, in my opinion, counterproductive toward the continued progress of human civilization and the preservation of Earth’s precious and truly irreplaceable biosphere. Aho.
We lost the most profound thinker about visitation who had enough stature to be listened to when John Mack left us. Before that, he’d just delivered one of the best talks about the circles at the yearly Glastonbury Symposium, and we in the circle world thought he could be the one to make the breakthrough so that the world would examine the evidence that indicates the circles are coming from elsewhere, which indeed is substantiated by the work done by BLTResearch. There are excerpts of that talk in my movie, “What On Earth?,” which does not draw conclusions about where the circles come from but presents a compelling case that it’s not us.
Hi, Richard…
Sorry to hear this guy turned out to be whatever it is he is. I’ve heard his name somewhere before, but can’t remember where…
Couple of questions:
1. What was/is Dr. Gritzner’s area of study/expertise? And where was he employed?
2. Why did you invite him to speak in the first place?
Thanks,
Nancy
Um, this screed is silly in the utmost meaning of the word. I studied with Professor Gritzner and know him quite well. He is not associated with the CIA. The CIA Factbook is a book put together for Congress so those idiots can know something about the nations their (non)actions affect. A geographer DOES geography, i.e., it is not suspicious in the least that a foremost Geography Professor should be involved in writing the country facts & descriptions.
Dr. Gritzner is a first rate Cultural Geographer who is having fun in his retirement addressing some paranormal topics. As for “Believers” who believe all the paranormal crap out there, I refer you to “Skeptic”, “Skeptical Inquirer”, and “Free Inquiry” which are journals devoted to the scientific discussion & research of paranormal and natural “phenomena”. If I were to do a cultural geographic study of crop circles, Big Foot, or other alleged phenomena, I would start with Where is What, Who promotes it, Why does this topic speak to people?, Also Why is it there in the alleged locations, To what locations has the original idea migrated or diffused, When were the events or sightings, and lastly, So What? (meaning a complete analysis based upon true facts, not conjecture or popular imagination). If you go to the Center for Inquiry, you will find references to newsletters, publications, etc., as well as journals which have scientifically researched these alleged phenomena. Quit worrying about whether Dr. Gritzner is a spy and worry about REAL phenomena & monsters–like our broken Judiciary, Executive, and Legislative branches of government and the so-called leaders (sic) who have betrayed this nation through their intransigence, incompetence, and idiocies.
Sharon,
I agree with your stated political views, and I agree that it is very unlikely (but not out of the realm of possibility) that Dr. Gritzner works as a UFO debunker for the CIA. Rather than being a personal criticism of Dr. Gritzner, who in fact seemed like a very nice, sincere, and honest person, my “screed” is really intended more as a criticism of the mind-set of current day scientists who fail to educate themselves about what is currently known about the UFO, crop circle, alien abduction, and cattle mutilation phenomena. All of these phenomena can be quite neatly explained by invoking but a single premise – that these recurring phenomena (excepting some crop circles) are not coming from us. Rather, they clearly originate from the intellect and the actions of a separate, advanced intelligence that exists, that is here observing Earth and interacting with humanity on a highly selective basis, and is able to do so in ways that are subtle enough that they transpire largely unnoticed by the general populace. There exists a great deal of evidence which clearly indicates that this is indeed the case, but this information is largely discounted or, more often, completely ignored, especially by the mainstream media. Thus, we have otherwise highly educated persons like Dr. Gritzner referring to “ghost lights”, a term which implies that we do not know what UFOs (alien space craft) are, which is clearly a fallacy.
Your statement “So What?” indicates to me that you have not engaged in deep thought about the profound changes that will occur throughout the foundations of our civilization when the UFO/ET reality becomes fully incorporated into humanity’s collective awareness. If you continue reading “Skeptical Inquirer“, it will take you all the more time to catch up on what is really happening, because that literature is generated by a mind-set that constitutes a significant part of the problem. I direct your attention to the book UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record by Leslie Kean as a good place to begin learning about many highly credible people describing their personal experiences with UFOs. Robert Salas wrote Faded Giant which is another well documented account of UFOs shutting down U.S. nuclear missiles in the late 1960s. Both of these books can be checked out from the Jesse A. Marcel Library. If you would like more suggestions, then please write back.
Richard
Richard, you could not possibly find Dr. Gritzner anywhere near the CIA, except to write geography facts for the CIA Factbook. He is a Geographer and a writer. Nothing mysterious there! It doesn’t bother me that he is enjoying his retirement researching these topics. My personal view on the paranormal is that it is all in the imagination of the writers who have created this genre, in the vast number of books and programs over the decades that have promoted these beliefs, and the money the networks have made (Discover Channel, The History Channel) from programs on these topics.
My view is that these beliefs are largely harmless, except to the extent that some people sadly devote their entire lives to researching things that don’t exist. They do harm in the sense of people not using common sense, not believing that there is zero actual evidence, not using critical thinking, and wasting time and worry over what is basically woo-woo.
On UFOs… Here’s why I am completely doubtful that any aliens could have visited earth during humanity’s existence. (Please forgive me if this takes awhile.) For one, the Universe is very, very old compared to a human lifespan, much less the entire length of Homo Sapiens Sapiens existence. In essence, we are talking about the last 200,000 years. In most of that time, humanity was (I hate this word) ‘primitive’ in technology and development. We have only had significant industrialism for the last 250 of that 200,000 years. We have only had Television and radio in the last 100 years. We have only had satellites since the early 1960s, or about 75 years or thereabouts. We have had computers with any power since the 1980s. And we have only had the technology to search deep space for the last 30 years.
Given the great distances from one planet to others in space, from one solar system to other solar systems, from one galaxy to other galaxies, it is highly unlikely, though not impossible, that another species has reached the level of development enabling it to travel to earth during its species’ span of existence. However, the problem comes in statistics. What are the chances that the two species have existed at the same time, in the same place,in order for the two civilizations to overlap? Given the hazards our planet has already undergone with 5 mass extinctions, and we are in the 6th, plus at least one asteroid or comet has hit the earth causing mass destruction on earth, and added to that, the hazards another species’ planet may have likewise faced, I find it utterly unbelievable that humans and another species–that allegedly could travel through vast distances, taking vast travel times in space–could have ever co-existed as intelligent species at the same time. Therefore, the likelihood of an alien encounter on earth is nil-to approaching zero.
That’s my take on the topic of UFOs.
Sharon
Sharon,
I agree with your assessment regarding Dr. Gritzner. I think it is unlikely that he has been involved with the CIA as a partner in the UFO cover-up that has been going on for the past 7 decades. What is most likely is that Dr. Gritzner, at least at the time he came to speak with our group, was largely uninformed about the bigger UFO picture, as you also appear to be. I hope that Dr. Gritzner has delved more deeply into the subject since the time of our meeting. In Dr. Gritzner’s defense, he and indeed all academics have been severely constrained from looking into the subject of UFOs with serious intent due to the effectiveness of the psychological tools that have been effectively impemented over decades in order to steer the public away from any serious investigation of this subject.
You dismiss the possibility that some of the UFOs reported in our skies on an almost daily basis are intelligently controlled craft of non-human origin based upon what you think you know to be true about this universe. Our still nascent but rapidly evolving technological capabilities that you have cited are all reasons why you and all of us should assume nothing regarding what may be possible. Despite what our anthropocentric reasoning tells us, we remain babes in the woods.
To state that there is “zero actual evidence” is a patently false statement. There is a great deal of evidence that supports the fact that some UFOs reported are, very likely, intelligently designed and operated craft of non-human origin. What exactly they are, who designed them, who manufactured them, who is operating them, how they function, why they are here, how we can communicate with them, and ultimately how our detailed understanding of all of the above might benefit our human civilization here on Earth are all very legitimate and very important questions that need to be addressed through rigorous scientific study. What is harmful are those who continue to parrot the phrase “there is no evidence” while not taking the time nor making the effort to educate themselves about the evidence that does exist.
I do admit that the evidence, aside from a great many photos, videos, and radar tracings that we do have, is largely anecdotal. This does not mean that found hardware does not exist, but simply that civilians have not yet had access to it. There is one piece of hardware that I have seen, recovered from the site of a UFO landing near Dalnegorsk, Russia. I viewed that piece of hardware at the “Area 51” exhibit (sponsored by the Smithsonian) at the Museum of Atomic Testing in Las Vegas. But, the sources of those anecdotes are, in many cases, very credible people who have seen these objects during up-close encounters. My previous medical colleague and friend, Dr. Jesse Marcel, is but one example of many very credible people who have had the courage and the integrity to speak out about their experiences, his being with the Roswell crash debris. You have not had the benefit of knowing Dr. Marcel, but I have. This is a key reason why I have been able to make the transition from nonbeliever to believer. I can only give you my assurance that Dr. Marcel was not the kind of person who would lie to the world about this, under any circumstance, or for any reason.
If you should care enough about this question, “Are We Alone?” to look further into the evidence for UFOs, I would recommend viewing a soon to be released documentary by Robert Hastings titled UFOs and Nukes: The Secret Link Revealed, as well as reading his book titled UFOs and Nukes. I am led to believe the video will soon be available for public viewing on Vimeo.com, perhaps as soon as tomorrow, April 11. Books I would recommend include Leslie Kean’s book UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go On the Record, as well as Col. Phillip Corsos’s book The Day After Roswell. These will all be good places for you to start educating yourself about this new reality.
Thank you for you comments.
Richard O’Connor, M.D.
Dr. O’Connor, knowing far more about global warming now than I did (or anyone did) since 2014 when our conversation began, I doubt even more that the earth has been visited by ‘intelligent life’. I’m quite certain that any intelligent alien would take one look at what we have done to our own ‘nest’ and would therefore be convinced of our insanity as a species. Further, the information we are getting from NASA’s Twin Study shows that space travel is even more hazardous to humans than previously thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU0cD3kWnKY&feature=youtu.be
That’s not to mention hazards from space objects hurling through space which could puncture vessels, gamma-ray bursts, supernovae, & other realities in the vastness of the Universe that make such travel incredibly hazardous. ‘Warp drive’ aside, I am highly doubtful that ANY species with living tissue can survive deep space travel. It would take 37,000 years for trip to our nearest neighbor outside our solar system… Time is not on the side of making or surviving space travel for various reasons having to do with sheer physics.
You may be convinced by the ‘evidence’ True Believers have garnered, but I am not, nor is the Skeptic community, replete with scientists far smarter than you or I. I think you should simply ‘pass’ on your attempt to slander Dr. Gritzner & get over the fact that his talk made you uncomfortable because he refused to believe in your nonsense. The best persons to examine UFO & alleged contact are skeptics, not true believers.
And lastly, I have a far more urgent problem for you to address, one that real & a threat to all humanity: the 6th extinction–which due to global warming & climate change (which is already happening at a faster rate than anyone expected), & is highly likely to cause humanity’s tragic demise (joke term my husband & I use) in a mere 81 years. CO2 is now at 415 ppm. That’s a real & present danger to all life on the planet, not just Homo Sapius Rex (a joke term between my husband & I that obviously refers to HSS). You have a worry on your mind about things that AREN’T real; I have a true, existential tragedy on mine. I just turned 67 & I absolutely have never feared my own death–and believe me, I have faced the very real possibility several times (once with a brain tumor; once with an AVM; & about 20 bouts with pneumonia, any of which, without the existence of antibiotics would certainly have killed me. I still do not fear my own death whenever it will occur. But the thought of my species going extinct is paralyzingly fearful. So go look at your ‘evidence’ for your biggest concerns. I will listen to music, marvel at this blue planet & all its wonders, love my dear husband, be a true friend to those I love & kind strangers I do not, smile at complete strangers because it makes the world a better place, pet my little white dog whose existence has made my life immeasurably better, and try to do all I can to mitigate my own contributions to humanity’s impending demise. I hope you will understand that your petty complaints are meaningless to me in the grand scheme of things so close at hand.
Respectfully as one human to another, but not with respect to your silly beliefs,
Sharon Fox Nichols
Dear Sharon,
Sorry to be so long in replying to your concern that I am wasting my time as a “true UFO believer” while our world is in serious trouble due to global climate change. I share that concern with you, not only with regard to the survival of our own species, but also for all other species that are threatened by our civilization’s continued dependence on fossil fuels. You have clearly expressed your disappointment that I and a growing number of others have adopted a belief in the notion that UFOs are real and they are most likely of extraterrestrial origin. If true, understanding the propulsion systems of these craft may well provide an answer to our present dilemma. I ask that you consider what I have written in my most recent post on this website that concerns recent revelations coming from our military / Pentagon.
http://cropcirclesresearchfoundation.org/crop-circles-cling-to-them/
Richard